demonsword@vasia.com wrote:

More spam... what the hey, I can indulge myself
in a meaty treat every now and then, can't I? ^_^

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S6>     ...I'm not so sure about the 'scientifically proved'
statement,
S6>there.  Personally, I'm inclined to believe (or at least, I'd like
to)
S6>that's it's possible - but, gee, it's kinda hard to prove that the
proper
S6>usage of chi can aid in healing, when the existance of chi itself
hasn't
S6>been proved (well, not by Western science, anyway).

Well, Western Science has proved that these chi effects
work. I read an article from the late 1980s which validized
chi and its effects on various Western-classified diseases.
It didn't prove that chi exists, but it proved that something
these Chinese people are doing works and exists, and it
works just fine.

Furthermore, look at the growing popularity of acupuncture
and other Chinese medical techniques in the US. It's there,
and it works. What more is there to it?
 

Simply because a technique has an effect doesn't mean that the
underlying theory is correct.  Hypnotism works, too, but the "animal
spirits" that Joseph Mesmer said was causing the effect do not exist.
 

---< SNip Chi-kung techniques >---

S6>     Again, I'm a bit dubious.  I've seen some of these
S6>'chi-techniques', and I'm not willing to assign their possibility
to chi,
S6>and especially not to 'aura shields'.  My sifu can take full out
kicks in
S6>the groin.  His sifu can do the bendy-spear thing.  Is it chi? 
Seems
S6>more like training to me - do enough Qi Gong and Iron Body
training, and

And how do you think is Chi developed? Training.
 

I think his point was that there might well be reasons for these
abilities that don't require posulating a mystical energy field.  He
says that ordinary strength and stamina might give these effects.  I say
trickery should not be ruled out.
 

S6>learn the various little and wonderful tricks that the body is
capable
S6>of, and you can accomplish some pretty amazing stuff.

Chi is in the body, according to Chinese explanation.
Following what you are saying, this might have been
an effect of Chi.
 

Or not.
 

S6>     Basically, I'm not sure if techniques like you mentioned above

S6>are legitimate examples of the existance of chi...

If you've seen these techniques, then there's no need
to prove to you that these effects exist. The point here
is not whether these effects are caused by chi, but
rather that these effects are caused by something that
is out of our normal understanding.
 

No, the point *is* whether these effects are caused by chi.  If they
aren't caused by a force matching the description of "chi,"  then they
are not evidence for the existence of such a force.
 

These things that are out of our normal understanding,
however, have been classified by various people from
various cultures by different methods. The Chinese
call it "chi." We Filipinos call it "agimat." Some
Western scientists classify it as "Mind over matter" or
"ESP" or whatever.
 

ESP has a nasty habit of disappearing when examined closely.
 

The point is, the effect occurs, and it does not matter
how you want to explain it or what you want to call it.

*Yes it does.*  If you believe that milk is turned sour by fairies and
never question this belief, you will never learn how milk can be
preserved.  Without questioning the reasons behind observed phenomena,
learning is a mere matter of trial and error.
 

It's there, and to the Chinese it's called chi. The
Chinese explanation might not exactly be correct
100%, but it sure makes more sense than anything
else.
 

I question that assertion. 

The techniques mentioned above are a legitimate
example that the effects exist, and the effects are
simply caused by something called Chi by the Chinese.

You might say that Western Science can't explain it, but
it's there, so what does that say about Western Science?

It says that Western Science requires rigorous standards of proof.  It
says that Western Science reserves judgement if no evidence is
available.  It says that Western Science does not propose elaborate
theories about the operation of the universe and expect people to accept
parlor tricks like the bendy-spear thing as compelling evidence. 
 

Western Science is not, and probably never will be,
the final word on everything. All it takes is a change
of orientation.

Yes.  It requires a change from empirically testing one's beliefs about
the universe to simply accepting whatever someone tells you simply
because that person is supposed to be wise.

-- David.