Subject: [FFML] -kun, -san? -MI- (fwd)
From: Jordan Malokofsky
Date: 5/14/1997, 12:51 PM
To: FFML

  I read through the mailings of name suffixes and saw some ommitions.  I
had the following message saved from a Japanese mailing list, and am
forwarding it to the list.  It's a more comprehensive discussion on the
topic.


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    |  |                 <There is an exception to every rule.>
    |  |                ****************************************
    |  |     |
    |  |    / \                 Jordan Malokofsky - Mundane
    |  |   /|||\                Tatsuki Cynnabar no Kaikeigakari Akira
    |  |   | _ |                     - SCA
    |  | %%%%%%-------          Sir Pip - Cyberspace Avatar
  \ |  |%/%%%%%|     |          http://www.umich.edu/~malokofs
  |\|  |/|%%%%%|     |  
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     \/

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:43:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Kevin Alan Martin <martink@umich.edu>
To: japantalk@umich.edu
Subject: Re: -kun, -san? -MI- (fwd)

I thought this was interesting and informative too.  Happy Hollidays!

Kevin


Well, here's a copy of a post by Theresa Martin I pulled off r.a.a. from
a long while ago... it's the most descriptive piece on the subject I've
seen yet.

Incidentally, though, more endings than -san and -kun get used; Goadi
refers to Kozue as "Kozue-chan", for instance, which is quite indicative
of how he sees her.

                   Aaron Teske
                   Mithramuse+@cmu.edu

mlast@macross.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Mike Lastucka) writes:
Just wondering if someone out there could help me out with a few things.  
Basically, I was wondering : What are the most common name suffixes, such 
as -kun, -san, and what are their meanings?  Thanks yall.

Warning: This article may be hazardous to your signal/noise ratio.

The most common honorifics are:

  -sama    Very respectful ending.  Not normally used with someone's
	    names.  Used to people of superior status, like your boss,
	    or to your guests as a host.  Envelopes should be addressed
	    with "-sama".  A shopkeeper might call a customer
	    "o-kyaku-sama" (Respected Mr. Customer).


  -san     Usual term of respect.  It can stand for Mr. and Ms., and
	    is attached to either first or last names, and names of
	    occupations like "o-mawari-san" (police officer).  You use
	    it for strangers and people you don't know well, but are
	    more or less the same social status.  When in doubt, use
	    "-san".

	    Warning:  Never use "-san" with your own name or your
	    family members' names.  Also, it shouldn't be used to refer
	    to famous people, since a small degree of intimacy is
	    implied.

	    High school girls are usually called "-san".


  -kun     Used by a socially superior male to a socially inferior
	    male.  Familiarly used among male students and boys who
	    grew up together.  Recently, some teachers call girl
	    students and some bosses call office ladies with "-kun",
	    but it's still considered a masculine suffix.

	    High school boys are called "-kun".  Girls go from "-chan"
	    to "-san" in high school, but boys go through a period of
	    "-kun" in between.

  -        Calling someone by a family name alone is being very
	    familiar (or rough).  Calling someone by given name
	    alone is less rough, but more familiar.  Using no
	    honorific when one is expected can be an expression of
	    contempt.

  -chan    Intimate form of address, suggesting smallness and cuteness.
	    Families that are close use it, and "-chan" is often used
	    to, and by, very young children. Used with given names,
	    abbreviations of given names, and nicknames, but not family
	    names.  Children who grow up together (like Madoka and
	    Hikaru), may keep using "-chan" into adulthood.  Note: to
	    call a social superior "-chan" without reason is very
	    insulting.

Old-fashioned honorifics like "-dono", used by a samurai when referring
to a daimyo, sometimes arise in anime.


Job titles are used very frequently to refer to people in Japan.  Most
can take the place of honorifics, as in "Tofu-sensei".

  sensei   A respectful term meaning "teacher", also used with
	    physicians.  Frequently used to refer to experts in a
	    field or people in any respected occupation.  Lawyers,
	    master chefs, fashion designers, and even some manga
	    artists are called "sensei" (some conservative people worry
	    about "sensei"-inflation).  Sometimes used like an honorific
	    with a name or title, as in "kouchou-sensei" (Mr. Principal,
	    Sir).

  hakase   A respectful term for someone with a doctoral degree,
	    other than medical doctors.

  sempai   A term meaning "senior" in a group or organization.  In
	    school, students (especially girls) refer to students a year
	    above them as "sempai", but this refers to a special social
	    relationship.

	    A "sempai" serves as a mentor to their "kouhai".  The sempai
	    kindly teaches and protects the kouhai, who acts as a
	    subordinate and obeys the sempai unconditionally (especially
	    in companies or sports teams).  (Contrary to what you may
	    have seen in Rising Sun, sempai do not address their juniors
	    as "kouhai", but by name or just "you".)


Company employees normally refer to their superiors by job title.  Most
of these titles end in "-chou" (head, chief).  A few common ones:

  shachou        company president
  kaichou        president of an association
  kachou         section chief
  jichou         assistant chief

Occupation names are also often used with honorifics, especially with
strangers.  For example:

  o-mawari-san   police officer
  untenshu-san   driver
  kangohu-san    nurse (female)
  o-hime-sama    princess
  moderu-san     fashion model
  sakana-ya-san  fish store owner


Family terms occur very frequently, because children call strangers
using family member terms, depending on what type of relative they
consider the person old enough to be.

One may sometimes identify a person by taking the listener's point of
view, as when a man refers to himself as "father" when talking to his
children.

		Referring to                    Addressing
		yours           someone's       yours (*)       someone's

grandfather     sohu            ojii-san        ojii-san        ojii-san
grandmother     sobo            obaa-san        obaa-san        obaa-san
uncle           oji             oji-san         oji-san         oji-san
aunt            oba             oba-san         oba-san         oba-san
elder brother   ani             onii-san        (o)nii-san      [Name]-san
elder sister    ane             onee-san        (o)nee-san      [Name]-san

A common scene in anime: a child addresses a young woman as "oba-san",
and the woman gets upset and corrects the child "oNEE-san".  Young women
dread the day when children start calling them "oba-san".

father          chichi          otou-san        (o)tou-san/papa otou-san
mother          haha            okaa-san        (o)kaa-san/mama okaa-san
younger brother otouto          otouto-san      [Name]          [Name]-san
younger sister  imouto          imouto-san      [Name]          [Name]-san
daughter        musume          ojou-san        [Name]          [Name]-san
son             musuko          musuko-san      [Name]          [Name]-san
wife            tsuma/kanai     oku-san         omae/[Name]     oku-san
husband         shujin          goshujin(-sama) anata
goshujin(-sama)
								[Surname]-san

Some ways of saying "you":

  otaku        very polite
  sochira      very polite
  anata        polite, common (*)
  kimi         informal masculine pronoun, common (*)
  omae         very informal or rough (*)
  anta         very informal or rough contraction
  temae        very rough  (Note: can also mean "I")
  onore        very rough  (Note: can also mean "I")
  kisama       very rough

Some ways of saying "I":

  watakushi    very polite, can be snobbish
  kochira      very polite
  watashi      polite, common (*)
  atakushi     polite feminine contraction, can be snobbish
  kotchi       polite
  washi        informal masculine contraction, used by old men
  atashi       informal feminine contraction
  boku         informal masculine pronoun, common, used by boys/young men
(*)
  uchi         informal feminine
  ore          very informal or rough


I've marked with a * the ones that come up most frequently.  Learning
them will make watching unsubtitled anime more pleasant, but there's no
need to memorize them, all at once.

You may notice that the very rough words for "you" are often
translated as curses.  These are pronouns that insultingly imply
the speaker's superiority.  They come up often as fighting words.

Disclaimer:  I'm not a native speaker.  I may misunderstand, or my books
	     may be incorrect.  Crossposted to soc.culture.japan so that
	     any mistakes may be corrected.