Subject: RE: [FFML] cultural ??, was why Ranma, was Why not Shampoo?
From: "Armstrong, Kent" <armstk@uf4965p01.BentonvilleAR.ncr.com>
Date: 5/4/1997, 2:22 AM
To: "Caroline Seawright" <caseawr@ecr.mu.oz.au>
CC: "'Fanfic@fanfic.com'" <Fanfic@fanfic.com>

The thing here you forget is that arranged marriages ARE common in   
Japan,
and that people ARE held to it, even if there may not be a law about   
it.
The children do it out of respect for their parents.
Yes, _some_ do.  _Some_ people around here are curtious enough to let
people take their seat on the bus.  _Some_ people are crazy enough to   
go
into a school and shoot everyone in sight.  Neither of these are   
strong
holds (especially not the last) to an action.  Just because your   
parents
make a decision, even in Japan, you aren't always expected to go allow
blindly with it.

*sigh*

I hate it when people try to apply American stuff to Japan.

You must try to realise that if the children back out of it, and break   
the
engagement, then they lose face, dishonour their family, and they could
be disowned.
It may be less common these days, but it still happens.
Japanese culture isn't American culture - so don't try to place your own
values on the value of another society!
If Ranma broke off his engagment, which is a REAL engagement, with   
either
Akane or Ukyou, he could quite easily be kicked out of the Saotome clan,
and it would probably be his mother who'd kick him out.

Is there any honorable way to get out of a ridiculous situation like   
this?
Genma may be the only Father in History to have sold his son for a bowl   
of rice (and a fish&pickle) so what would be the precedent for somebody   
who had multiple Honorable arrangements. (polygamy?) ????

I guess that you could say that there's no law forcing an engaged
couple to marry - but most of them do it because they love each   
other.
It's not a law ... but it is still held to.
Yes, most that do it are in love, and when Ranma says he's in love   
with
one of the girls then it's an engagement and not before.  I'll also
remember this little point that people forced together can and often   
do
fall in love.

Oh, good. Then he's engaged to Akane, by American standards. He said   
that
he loved her, so that should be good enough for you.

So, basically, Ranma and Akane ARE engaged, Ranma and Ukyou ARE   
engaged,
No, they are not!  Not legally at all, and no consent on Ranma's part.
When he consents openly okay, not before.  They have a claim to him,   
an
honorable claim and see just below....

Well, no-one is EVER legally engaged. I hate to break it to you. There   
is
no law, not even in America, saying that when person X proposes to   
person
Y that they are engaged by law. :p

And, as I said before, you are trying to place your American views on   
the
Japanese culture.

They ARE engaged by Japanese culture.

They are NOT American, so you can't say that they are not engaged,   
because
they are not Americans.

They ARE engaged because that is how one can become engaged in Japan.

It used to be common even in America, too, especially among the wealthy
class. It just isn't done any more in American.

It is still done in Japan.

Yes but it's hardly Kosher to do it multiple times for the same child is   
it? After all Genma has engaged Ranma to - A Tendo daughter; Ukyou Kounji   
(and he has already taken the Dowry on that one{wouldn't that mean they   
are married?} - The martial arts takeout girl(actually sold the boy in   
that case) plus a few others we may not know about. Shouldn't the whole   
question of honor be pretty firmly on Genma's shoulders? (of course   
everyone probably has higher hopes of Ranma doing something - Genma would   
probably just run off)
<SNIP>

Honorably speaking he owes his father something (this is just   
tradition,
in truth I think Genma should be shot for his upbringing) and thus   
holds
to the engagement with Akane.  With Ukyo it's very similar save Genma

Yep... And because he's also secretly in love with Akane.

unofficial dissolved the engagement by running off on her and thus   
wronged
her.
Yes, but this is Genma's fault, and so it's a Saotome family 'wrong'. So
Ranma must keep the engagement to uphold the family honour.

Ok - So its Ranma's Duty to Fix everything Genma did? Does Genma get away   
scott free with all of this (or is that Nodoka's sword I hear)
<SNIP>
Ranma and Akane/Ranma and Ukyou are engaged in the minds of ALL the
people.
Not in mine their not.

Yes, in their mind.

Ranma calls Akane his "uncute fiancee", and Ukyou is called Ranma's   
"cute
fiancee". They are engaged in their own minds, even if they don't want   
to
be married.

Why else would Akane try to break off the engagement if she gets angry,
if she didn't believe that she was engaged?

There characters all say that they are engaged - Ranma, Akane and Ukyou,
so why do you say that they don't think that they are?

You saying that they are lying?
   No, but wouldn't you be in full denial mode if this was your life? :-P   

<BIG SNIP>
Kun-chan...

Kent Armstrong (seriously I am curious about how on earth this would be   
handled in real life and not a manga)

(this sig for rent)  

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