I never said the way he did it wasn't realistic. It is very much so... but
not for the very specific case of Akane.

Why not?

Because (1) it relies on Akane having a severe personality disorder which I
do not see her as having; she has some symptoms, but they are not
consistent, therefore whatever she has probably isn't rage disorder-

Mental disorders _aren't_ consistant. I don't exhibit all signs of
depression all the time.

and (2)
it relies on Akane not doing the first thing to admit that she might need to
change something to make the marriage work. On occasion, she has made
efforts to be what she thinks Ranma wants her to be; here, she refuses to
even consider the notion of changing something.

If she's affected by rage disorder in the way I have described, then it
would be impossible for her to do so.

Simply put, when I read this fic I can't believe- literally am incapable of
believing- that this is Akane in the story. Or Ranma, for that matter.

(4) Akane can so utterly fail to listen. Akane at least -tries-

sometimes to

make her relationship with Ranma work... but in this story, she does
absolutely nothing but be a hair-trigger emotional psychopath. In

fact, now

that I think of it, she is very OOC by the end of the 'fic, but she

has to

be so she can kill Ranma.

**AHEM!**

Right. However, -this- Akane is 'hit first and to hell with questions.'

At the end of the story, yes. At the beginning, no. There is a
logical, well documented progression from the beginning to the end.
No single step along the way jumps beyond the realm of believability.

Here we fundamentally disagree. Akane starts out as being the stereotype
'Ranma no baka!' Akane chara and rapidly degenerates to a 'Ranma I KILL!'
Akane.

Again, with reason. Characters don't change without reason, but give them a
reason and they will. The reason is a hack, but it's a reason.

(I could make a comment about _someone_ whose listening skills are
about on par with Akane's, but I believe I will refrain. :)

Comment away, I'm not as shallow as all that.

That's wierd. I don't even remember writing that, and it isn't in my
outbox. Must've been the caffiene talking.

Oh, this is some other guy.

In any case, Akane's problem is not in listening- she is capable of this-
but her tendency to jump to conlcusions like Carl Lewis winning his ninth
gold medal.

It's still miscommunication no matter how you look at it.

All of which relies on Akane having a disorder which, if true, would have
her lashing out at -anyone.- Which does not happen in the manga.

I'm not sure this is true.

What's not true? That Akane never lashes out at Kasumi, or Nabiki (well,
seldom) and Ryouga?

They're not targets. People with rage disorders lash out at targets, the
ones that are causing her immediate pain. That includes Ranma, Kunou,
formerly the boys of Furinkan. Kasumi, Nabiki, and Ryouga never really hurt
her, so any rage dumped on them is wasted effort, when there is a clear
target, RANMA NO BAKA!!!

or that the story relies on a disorder which Zen, as I have said elsewhere,
whapped us all over the head with to make sure we knew about it? For my
money, the story actually would work better without any more than a casual
mention of rage disorder.

Then you'd complain about rage disorders being something Zen made up. Well,
maybe not you, but some sap on the list.

The Akane portrayed here is based on an Akane whose mental vocabulary
consists of nothing but 'Ranma no baka!' It has no room for the Akane who
tries to be friendly, the Akane who -does- have friends, the Akane who tries
to do nice things for Ranma. That is why I object to the story; I don't
think it's a plausible development for her character, and all the books on
spouse abuse and rage disorder in the world won't change my mind on this.

So, I guess it boils down to, "My mind's made up, don't confuse me
with the facts"?

The facts are, Akane's behavior in the manga is inconsistent with an
individual with rage disorder. Yes, I have met people like this- they don't
have many friends, and it's hard to stay their friend, because they will
blow up almost at random at ANYBODY. Akane limits her anger to the direct or
percieved causes of it- Ranma, Shampoo, Kodachi, Tatewaki, Ukyou, Genma.
This leads me to believe that Akane's violence- which is, might I point out,
extremely exaggerated in this story as in many other fanfics- is not a
medical or psychological problem, but rather a result of environmental stress.

Okay, she may not have a rage disorder, but she still has a major control
problem, which is just as bad.

Which development I have objected to elsewhere. Ranma as an individual is
not the 'victim' candidate type of personality. He has a healthy, or
more-than-healthy, self-image, is emotionally self-sufficient (something
which is not portrayed well at all in some fanfics- he has problems with all
his fiancee trouble, but he isn't falling-down depressed or upset about it;
he's managing to cope.

You're ignoring the character development that takes place in the
story again.

Character development which is founded, IMO, on false premises.

You're reading too much fanfic and not enough of the original manga.

Oh, puh-leaze! He _does_ get literally flattened for his insults in
the manga - many, many times.

Yes, and he also get -hit- but not flattened many times for his insults.

I was speaking figuratively. He doesn't deserve to get hit, either.

And you seariously think this

problem will get any better when they get married? PLEASE! These problems
just don't correct themselves on their own. If anything, it gets worse,
especially if R&A assume that it will get better on its own and they find
differently.

I don't think the problem as is expressed in this would come up.

You're ignoring the character development that takes place in the
story again.

The character development in the story is based on characters subtly but
substantially different from the source (or at least to my perception of them).

Plain fact: Akane hits Ranma unjustly. Not without cause, just unjustly. He
deserves to be reprimanded, yes. Hit, no.

Plain fact: Domestic violence escalates as time progresses, and has never
corrected itself. It also leads to death of one spouse if not dealt with in
some way.

Barring rage disorders, Ranma is still in an abusive relationship. No
matter how biting the insult or serious the fuck-up, he doesn't deserve to
get hit. If something is not done, Ranma might end up seriously dead.

Considering, I'm surprised Akane hasn't ALREADY killed Ranma. I mean,
mallets, chairs, lamps, cinderblocks, LEO... goddamn, woman! You might not
have a rage disorder but you are still seriously disturbed! What's next,
fifteen ton weights?!

My attitude about R&A marrying:

(1) It will be when -they- choose, or not at all.

Undoubtedly true.

(2) It will probably be after they have completed public school, and

possibly after college.

(3) It will be a marriage which will require constant hard work on both

parties to maintain.

That's an understatement!

(4) It will be a marriage of equals - which the one in Zen's work is not,

it's Mistress Akane and Ranma the serving-boy.

You're ignoring the character development that takes place in the
story again.

I'm ignoring development made under false pretenses.

The false pretense is that we know anything on how Ranma will react in that
situation. There's enough we don't know about the inner workings of Ranma's
mind to know that he _wouldn't_ break under the strain. He appears macho
and confident, but is he really, or is that just a mask? If the confidence
is real, why can't you tell Akane, "I love you" Ranma? I can act macho and
be really f-depressed. I know, I've done it. That mask already hides the
fact that he's smitten for Akane. Psychology is complicated enough so that
we can't make a prediction.

Considering all possibilities, including a Ranma which can't bear to see a
loved one suffer, he might break, he might not. It all depens on whether
his sympathy or his self-esteem is stronger.

Try again for a 'Ranma gets Akane' fic, but this time instead of assuming
that it will be a disaster, assume that BOTH of them will work to keep it
going, bad good or indifferent.

His goddamn fic.

True. Gomen.

And Ranma and Akane do try very hard to work it out.

Bullshit. Akane didn't do a damn thing.

You still haven't read Part 1, have you?

Yes I have, and what I read doesn't change my position on this. Akane dug in
her heels and made herself infallible,

Well, she is stubborn.

and Nodoka acted like gasoline on an
open fire, acting as possibly the only credible reason why Ranma wouldn't do
something about Akane's rages.

But

it still doesn't correct the problem _unless_ they get outside help. Akane
deals with the problem the only way she knows how: blame Ranma and

hit him.

It always worked before, so why not now?

It almost NEVER worked before.

I say again, I was being SARCASTIC! I suddenly switched to Akane-think. Gomen.

Ranma was trying to identify what

was making Akane mad and deal with it. The problem is that AKANE is the
problem; she can't aknoweldge that some things _aren't_ Ranma's fault, and
a great deal of them aren't _anyone's_ fault, plus that her temper is out
of control.

Yes, she CAN and she HAS.

Only after prodding. I've yet to see a case where she accepts blame before
laying it on Ranma if she could. If you know a case, I'd certainly like to
know. And this is not character development, this is preexisting.

Hell, the more you explain of this, the more you state my case. The Akane

The more you argue, the more you convince me that you haven't read or
haven't understood the story.

The latter may be true. I sure as hell will never understand Akane having
rage disorder, or Ranma not getting help when he needs it-

He did get some help. The delay? Well, he doesn't like to admit defeat.

and he is not so
averse to the idea as you think, that's entirely Akane's hangup-

It is.

a multiple
of things which make the story wrong for -these particular- characters where
it would be right for characters without the history of the mangas and anime.

and Ranma in this fic are changed from the source in order for Akane to
believably murder Ranma at the end. A well written story which should not
have had the Ranma 1/2 charas stuffed into it.

You're ignoring the character development that takes place in the
story again.

How many times do I have to say it? The character development is taken from
false premises. It's flawed. It's wrong. It is untrue to the original
characters as well as their logical development, at least as I see it.

Character development is not needed. Anyone is capable of killing if they
get mad enough. If Akane did to Gosunkugi what she does to Ranma, she'd
kill him. Additionally, Akane almost killed him when she threw him out her
window and followed up with a dumbell, knocking him unconscious and
drowning him. I can see the regular issue Akane follow up a toss with a
dumbell, and landing in the pond, well, that's the place she usually throws
Ranma. If Nabiki wasn't there, he'd already be dead.


                           ---------------------
##   ## ##   ## #######  ##   ##  AKA Tom Jefferys, Time Lord for Hire
##   ##  #   #   ##   ## ### ###    "Have TARDIS; Will Travel."
## # ##   ###    #####   ## # ##  Weilder of ANVIL and SPAM!
### ###    #     ##  ##  ##   ##  <wyrm@mail.utexas.edu>
##   ##   ###   ###   ## ##   ##    <JEFFERYSTR@rascal.guilford.edu>

Darwin was wrong: Man is still an ape!